Commanders Briefing Episode 7
Major General Jay Coggan, Commanding General of the California State Guard
Jean Marciniak: (00:00)
Welcome to Commanders Briefing, a podcast where we talk about state defense forces with their commanding officers. This month we have on the show Major General j Kogan, the Commanding General of the California State Guard. This episode was recorded in late May we apologize for the delay in release. We also apologize at the time is the audio quality degrades here and there. We would like to thank our Patreon supporters who make programs like this possible. If you want to help support the podcast and state defense force.com, please click the Patreon link in the description. Here’s the interview. Uh, so I guess, uh, I’ll start out, uh, what kind of, uh, missions is the, uh, California State Guard up to these days?
MG Jay Coggan: (00:40)
Well, yeah. The state guard right now is finally, uh, come to the point where when I took command four years ago in May, um, we were, you know, basically mission seeking, like most state defense forces do, uh, there. And, and I realized that was, had been, and probably will be the problem of state defense forces for a while to come. Hmm. Uh, and when your mission seeking, there’s not a lot for you to do until someone says, Okay, uh, I’ll, I’ll let you do that. But it’s always you going around like, you know, Oliver going more sir, more, you know, and it’s a real issue. Uh, so I basically stepped back, took a year just to reorganize ourselves, and then started thinking of ourselves as an operational force and not a force that was solely there to support the National Guard. And I think you’ve heard me say this before, but I don’t see state defense forces as being the reserve of the reserves.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:56)
Uh, that’s, that I think is one of the inherent problems that has always existed, is that perception of one’s self. That your only job there is to be a reserve of the reserves rather than thinking of yourself as having your own independent missions that have value. And that has taken a long time to, to reorganize. And I, and we, we looked at California and we said, What, what of our, what primary needs does California have that would be an independent mission of the state guard, or a mission of state guard that could be standalone, that wasn’t a backfill for the National Guard. And of course, natural disasters come to light. Uh, the National Guard is not trained nor paid to respond to natural disasters from the federal government. They’re paid to train for war fighting. That’s what they get on their drill weekend on IDT and at, they’re getting money to train for war fighting, not to put out fires or rescue people from floods or hurricanes or ice storms or, or, or, or the like.
MG Jay Coggan: (03:12)
And so, if that exists as an independent mission that is not dependent upon the National Guard wanting us, that became my focus. Where could we find our own purpose as an operational force? Now, that meant really breaking the mold. It, it really took a lot to get that done. But eventually, one of the ways we were able to get it done was by convincing Army Guard, uh, and the 40th temperature division, that their federal readiness is actually being hurt every year by the constant need for National Guard soldiers to respond to these emergencies. In fact, it was affecting their retention, and they were losing people. And, and think about it, people joined the National Guard often simply to, you know, one week in a month, you know, two weeks in summer. And yeah, I know I may have to deploy, and yeah, this may happen, but it’s gotten to a point, especially in California, and I’m sure many of our sister states that are also suffering from the new climate environment we’re in, that it’s becoming every year.
MG Jay Coggan: (04:38)
So every summer, they’re pulling up hundreds and hundreds of people from the 79th I B C T, um, to do fire duty. And all of a sudden you’ve got all these soldiers that are away from their families, and they are away from their jobs fighting fires, wildland firefighting fires or whatever else would come up, including civil unrest. And that’s not what they joined for in many respects. But at the same time, ask the commanders of the Army, National Guard or divisional commanders, Is your readiness being impacted by the regular need for your soldiers to not be a drill? Remember, soldiers that are out fighting fires are not drilling, they’re not going to at, or they’re not going in the normal rotational, uh, time with everyone else because the disaster is pulling them. So one of the things was to convince the National Guard that what we’re trying to do actually is to your benefit.
MG Jay Coggan: (05:47)
Your federal metrics, your federal readiness is just going to be better if you’re not constantly being pulled away. And we looked to do that. So how do we do that? So we first started, it would’ve been, Oh, God, uh, oh, this would be two summers ago. We got finally our first 20 people that were red cards certified to fight wildlife firefighting, uh, firefighters. And we attended to try and get them as a, a, a force pa. It’s not a force package, but a hand crew. Hand crew effectively is like 20 people. A force package is is 80 to a hundred. So we wanted our first hand crew, and when we got them together and we were ready to give them, they, the, the, the department found said, Fine, we’ll put them on emergency state active duty. But instead of, uh, your group being a single hand crew, we’re gonna use them to backfill and fill in for National Guard hand crews where someone has either gotten injured or dropped out, or there was a need to fill it.
MG Jay Coggan: (07:02)
So our 20 folks went out onto the fire line, uh, mixed in with National Guard. Well, within two weeks in two hand crews, our NCLs became the hand crew leaders for National Guard. Oh, that’s how good we, So, I mean, it was literally a state guard NCO was commanding another 19 National Guard soldiers on a fire line. And, and then I, and then the second Saturday, we were out, uh, you know, I get a call from the, uh, uh, joint, uh, uh, the task force commander says Briga or General in the Army. National Guard says, So General Kogan, he says, Sir, one of your soldiers had a stroke on the fire line, Um, just to gimme the info. Now I get off the phone, and two things occur to me. First of all, I start to say to myself, Okay, that’s terrible. I mean, I’m starting to worry about the soldier.
MG Jay Coggan: (08:01)
Who is the soldier. I wanna be able to contact our family. I wanna see what’s going on. But then in the back of my mind, in all honesty, our my, my next thought was, Okay, how do I message that I’ve worked so hard to get us to this place that if, if one of our guys is now at a stroke, it’s gonna be, Oh, there go the old SMR again. You know, we used to be the, say, Military reserve. They used to call us the smis, there go the old Sr. Again, the old farts, you know, they should go back to drinking coffee and having donuts. We don’t have any or pretending they have missions, blah, blah, blah. And I’m trying to figure out how do I message yet so that I haven’t now taken two steps forward and three steps backward, except two hours later, I get a call from the same, uh, Army Guard, Brigader General. And, and he said, Sir, I wanna apologize. It wasn’t one of your soldiers that had a stroke. It was a 25 year old National Guardsman who had a stroke and was one of your soldiers who saved his life.
Jean Marciniak: (08:58)
Oh, wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (09:00)
So it went from, how do I handle the messaging for something that’s bad to, Wow, this is good messaging, meaning what we did. So that was what it took. And then the next year, so last summer, we were able to put out one hand crew all by ourselves. That was all 20. They went out by themselves on their own missions, no National Guard around. And we put out enough for half of a second hand crew as filler for the National Guard. And we proved ourselves again, two years in a row. So now fast forward to this fire season, now everybody has realized we can do what we wanna do. So I have ready to go out. I had ready to go out on the line one Complete Force package, which is 80 to a hundred people.
Jean Marciniak: (10:00)
Oh, wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (10:01)
In fact, they were put on the, on, on, on the tip fit as ready to go out instead of the I B C T, first out the door, except good news, then traveled. And last week, because the governor’s, you know, impetus here is fire prevention. We have what’s called, uh, Tim Rattles State. They’re being paid a state active duty constantly, not just emergency state active duty, uh, to, to clearing and back burns to anticipate fire season. They just asked us to give them 30 people for 60 days all getting paid full military paid, same as their rank with B and all the other good stuff that goes with it. Oh, we’re gonna stick them on Team Rattlesnake, first time ever.
Jean Marciniak: (10:47)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (10:48)
So I’ve now got 30, 30 folks heading out for 60 days. This has happened three days ago as part of Team Rattlesnake, as a complete unit out with the National Guard out there, uh, anticipating fire season. I, and then the best one is our Office of Marine Services just gave us five type six hand crew fire engines. We’ve just been given five fire origins, two distinct guard. Wow. So now I’ve got three bands, three to five men and women per truck are now gonna be out on fire, on, on wildlife firefighting, running the fire trucks. And we’re the only ones with them.
Jean Marciniak: (11:30)
Oh, wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (11:32)
So I’ve now got, my floor package is now being divided up into some, I will have about 120 people fighting fires this summer, uh, either on trucks or on, or as rattlesnake or as part of hand crews all being paid full duty while they’re doing it.
Jean Marciniak: (11:51)
Wow. That’s amazing. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. That’s, that’s, Wow. Um, okay.
MG Jay Coggan: (11:57)
So you, I know this is a long answer. Do you want me to keep going or do you wanna ask questions
Jean Marciniak: (12:02)
? Uh, well, I, uh, I definitely, um, uh, the erc, um, which is, I, I believe what you, um, uh, the unit’s called, Right?
MG Jay Coggan: (12:12)
Emergency Response Command. Yeah.
Jean Marciniak: (12:14)
Oh, okay. So, uh, I think there are, are there different parts of the rc? I, I think some, uh, I, I remember something about Team Shield, and then I think Team Zip Blaze.
MG Jay Coggan: (12:26)
Yeah. Team Blaze is our firefighter units. Okay. Okay. We also have, well, one of the reasons we did heavy recruiting, what we, there’s a foundation for the state guard in California 5 0 1 C three, that’s, you know, very legit. And it raised money, and it paid for marketing $30,000. So we were able to start target marketing for firefighting. Most of our recruits now are, are 18 to 30.
Jean Marciniak: (12:53)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (12:54)
Yeah. I mean, uh, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re healthy because we have a very separate, uh, uh, physical fitness test, um, pft, uh, for anybody that goes on and we call, uh, uh, strenuous duty. So, uh, you know, so these people are very healthy. They’re, they’re all vetted before we put ’em in those positions. So, Team Blaze is the firefighters Team Shield are our security forces. Many of them are current law enforcement. Many of them are joining up, but they’re, um, they’re PCA 32 qualify, which means they’re capable carry weapons. Uh, the department just bought us 30 brand new m seventeens for them.
Jean Marciniak: (13:36)
Oh, wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (13:37)
So I’ve got 30 men and women all armed up with brand new nine millimeter m seventeens, full battle rattle, and full battle gear. Oh, by the way, in addition to the five hand crews, the department’s now advanced, is now paying $350,000 to outfit all the people and the, um, fire engines.
Jean Marciniak: (13:59)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (14:00)
We’ve transitioned to an operational force. Our security forces have been our training regularly now, and getting certified for the purposes of predominantly doing fixed point security during either disasters or civil unrest. They’re, they’re not replacing the MP units. They’re basically fixed point security, or how do you clear a building during something going on? And they’re all being trained effectively to do this. And many of them are all current law enforcement. So that’s what I mean by, So our security forces are now being looked at that we put together Research and Rescue Team, which is also part of Team Shield. Every one of them are currently, um, uh, God, what Sarek two certified. A few are in the process of being Sartek one certified. They’re at least all sartek two certified right now. That’s an entire unit in, in there. And they’re being cross trained with the National Guard Unit.
MG Jay Coggan: (14:56)
In fact, last weekend at Camp Roberts, the what we, what we’ve done, we’ve done something interesting at the operations command and the ERC, is we came up with the decision that, um, we, we will deal with subject matter experts. So we have Team Blaze, which are our subject matter experts are firefighting. We have team shield, which are subject matter experts for security. We have team, um, we have search and rescue teams, which are, are subject matter experts on search and rescue. By the way, we have a whole mounted unit now that are, that are, that are being sartek certified for, for, uh, ho for how horse mounted search and rescue and big animal rescue during fires.
Jean Marciniak: (15:41)
Oh, wow. Not
MG Jay Coggan: (15:42)
Bad, huh?
Jean Marciniak: (15:43)
That’ss a lot.
MG Jay Coggan: (15:44)
All working together. They’re all crosstraining.
Jean Marciniak: (15:46)
I’m kind of curious, with all these teams, how big is the California State Guard now?
MG Jay Coggan: (15:51)
Right now it’s at about 1300 real hard numbers on the way to 1500 by end of summer, maybe 1420.
Jean Marciniak: (15:58)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (15:59)
Wow. But it’s hard numbers no longer ghosts anymore.
Jean Marciniak: (16:04)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (16:04)
You know, really. But anyway, so we, we, we have surgery rescue, and then we have our shelter operations team that are fully equipped to put up Alaska tents and generators and make them run and keep them running, uh, for both shelters during disasters, and for, uh, operating as incident command centers. Everything, including with all, I mean, they’re, they’re fully equipped so they can broadcast to the jock in Sacramento in real time.
Jean Marciniak: (16:34)
Hmm. Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (16:35)
Um, so there’s a lot, there’s a lot going on in the erc, which is part of Operations Command. And, and they’re all, So what I meant to say, so we now have our subject matter experts, but then the decision was, if I’ve got roughly 200 to 250 people in erc, well, those 200 people are always not always doing the same thing. So if I need fire people, I need people to be able to back up fire, which means how do shield and how do SAR become a backup or a forced multiplier to the subject matter experts when they’re being needed? And vice versa, if there’s no fires and no civil need, need for security forces, how do, what do I, what do those guys sit follow if we have a need for service to rescue? So they’re now all crosstraining. So everybody in ERC is actually now a force multiplier for the subject matter experts of those teams that are all certified radar door. So last weekend, we actually have the five, I think it was five 70 yards, whatever, National Guard engineering team sent their experts down, and they basically cross trained our non SAR tech certified search and rescue people in search and rescue. Hmm. In fact, one of the star from the National Guards who were finishing up, he said, I wish my people was motivated as yours are.
Jean Marciniak: (18:03)
Wow. . Wow. That’s a high compliment.
MG Jay Coggan: (18:09)
Yeah. And so that’s basically that. Then the next part of operations command is our maritime component, which right now has a 47 foot, you know, million dollar, uh, motor life boat as part of it. Got it. From the city of San Francisco Police Department, um, donated it for free, but it’s fully with night vision flir. It’s got everything. Um, it operates as a, as a mobile command post and for, uh, necessary water response, either along the coast or in the Delta of California. And then I’ve now got, we’ve just finished purchasing two, one more on the way 16 foot rescue, one connector boats, which are, uh, they’re 16 footers. And we now have several, um, inflatables. Uh, and so we have team, one team in north, one team in the south that are all training for water search and rescue predominantly.
Jean Marciniak: (19:04)
I
MG Jay Coggan: (19:04)
See there, That’s, pardon me.
Jean Marciniak: (19:07)
Uh, I saw that you guys, uh, wore, uh, those maritime units. Um, so a couple of times that, uh, they worked with the Coast Guard, or a couple of training missions
MG Jay Coggan: (19:16)
Last summer, we did cross-training on tsunami response. We’re in about three weeks. We’re gonna do cross-training with the Coast Guard. But one of the injects, I, I hope that, I hope we can pull it off, We’re gonna, I wanna do is I’ve told my command is during, at, so they’re all gonna be up there for like five days up in the central coast. They said, So I want, I want my security forces, I want, I wanna stick them out on a search and rescue mission in the back country. And at that point, I wanna do an inject. I would like to see a security mission come up down the coast. I wanna see them disengage from search and rescue, get on vehicles, transport down to Morro Bay, fully arm up with their weapons and battle rattle, uh, you know, vest it all. I want ’em to get on the big 47 foot motor life boat. I want them, I want that to pull the inflatables behind it with the rescue one boats. I want it to go out beyond the breakers out into the Pacific, come down the coast to where there’s a beach. I want them to disbar the 47 foot motor life boat into the inflatables and land them on the beach. I said, Show me that.
Jean Marciniak: (20:26)
Wow. Okay.
MG Jay Coggan: (20:28)
I’m hoping it comes across. I’ll let you know. I’ll let you know in about two weeks,
Jean Marciniak: (20:32)
. Um, so,
MG Jay Coggan: (20:35)
But that’s how, that’s how we cross train.
Jean Marciniak: (20:39)
Yeah. And I, I, I could see that’s, uh, this is, um, I, I would, from what I see from what, uh, from what I’m, um, uh, inputting here, is that, um, you have a very close working relationship with the National Guard.
MG Jay Coggan: (20:54)
Very much so. And the Coast Guard, I mean, we’ve even had meetings at Coast Guard Island that give us the conference room. We use it. We do. We’ve been doing joint training at the Coast Guard. Um, they’re very happy. They trust us. Uh, they’ll go out with us in their 47 mil motor foot, 47 foot motor life boat, and we will do joint exercises together. Uh, good relationship with them. Why not?
Jean Marciniak: (21:20)
I, uh, uh, one question that I had is, um, so one active unit that you have, uh, which I, uh, repeatedly see, uh, a news coming out of is the, uh, 40th support detachment. Uh, yes. I do see them in a lot of high profile missions. Can you, can you, um, kind of define what, uh, that detachments, uh, overall mission is and, um, um, the kind of missions it performs?
MG Jay Coggan: (21:47)
Sure. Let me, let me first tell you that we’ve gone to a new, it took three years, but this last, this year, in our fourth year, we have gone to a new command structure. We have three Mays. We have our operations command run by a, a brigader general that in charge of operation is charge of maritime component and arc. Those are the units that are solely operational, The state of California, independent of the National Guard. We have our joint command, which runs our joint medical, our Jag, our our, uh, recruiting commands, our, um, uh, training command, anything that is a joint command that is run by Briar General. Then the third is, we call it our Combat Readiness Command, also run by Briar General. That Combat Readiness Command, which is, uh, which the 40th support attachment is part of, is job, is to train the National Guard.
MG Jay Coggan: (22:46)
So, going back to the original concept, we are not the reserve of the reserves, but our jobs are not just to be operational state of California, but we have a tremendous opportunity to actually train the National Guard example. Our Small Arms training team is, are the primary trainer and small arms training for the National Guard. Our, our 40th division support, our for support attachment, uh, runs the Ts. So just last weekend, uh, the simulators, they qualified 100 National Guard soldiers at Camp Roberts on Seabird, cuz Sea Burn’s all is done. Seabird shooting is now done only in the Ts. And then while members of the, uh, I think it was the two 24th was up there, uh, don’t, don’t, don’t take me to face value. One of the national guardians up there doing their, their annual quals. Anybody that couldn’t qual on the weapons was then sent into the t where our people basically trained them how to shoot. They went back out on the fire line. Every one of them qualified. That’s how good they are.
Jean Marciniak: (23:50)
I’m kind
MG Jay Coggan: (23:50)
Of curious, as
Jean Marciniak: (23:52)
I’m kind curious, what kind of, uh, like are they, are, are the members of the this 40th support detachment? Are they like prior service or law enforcement? How do they have that, Uh, knowledge?
MG Jay Coggan: (24:04)
Some are, some aren’t. Uh, train the trainers. Uh, we, people get trained either because they’re former National Guard and they come over and they train, or we get the National Guard to train us. We are, by the way, we run truck, truck driver training for the, for the, for the National Guard. Our guys are, teach them how to drive trucks, National Guard soldiers. That’s part of the 40th again. Um, we do op for, uh, our medics. We’re the only ones on the ranges recently. So, yes. In other words, what we do is that 40th cetera, which is part of the Combat Readiness Command, its job, is to help ensure the combat readiness of the National Guard. So that’s how we’ve been able to actually start to get control of the missions, is by a, what is operational independent of National Guard and what missions are in support of the National Guard’s combat readiness. And by dividing those two lanes and then having a third command solely in how do you support us, how do you recruit, train, all the other stuff for us, then it’s a lot easier to manage what I consider the California state car.
Jean Marciniak: (25:19)
Hmm.
MG Jay Coggan: (25:20)
Wow. And it’s taken a long load off me cuz they’re breaking into three ma coms each run by a general, It takes me out of that loop.
Jean Marciniak: (25:28)
Oh, wow. Okay. So the delegation, uh, really, uh, definitely improves the, um, the response.
MG Jay Coggan: (25:35)
Sure. I mean, it’s easy to be the commander and get involved every day when you’re not doing anything. You know, I look, I look at my job, quite frankly, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I don’t really command anything. I mean, I very seldom give an order or a command. My job is to ensure that I pick the right people that will command. And then secondly, and most importantly, my job is to provide the vision of where I see the stake guard going. Convey that intent to everybody and then resource it. That’s my job. So I spend most of my time really looking, where are we going? How should we get there? And what resources do I need to get there? That’s my job. Think about it.
Jean Marciniak: (26:27)
Hmm. So, uh, I I, with all this, um, accomplishment, um, obviously the, uh, California State Guard is, um, uh, we did a poll, I think a couple weeks ago on the website, um, where, you know, uh, ranking like, which, uh, state defense forces, uh, the most active, the most, uh, coordinated with the National Guard and the two finalists, uh, literally was break a even, uh, was Puerto Rico State Guard and the, uh, California State Guard. So I wanted to ask you, um, based upon this, uh, it’s kind of moving over to more of a, a generalized state defense force, Um, subject is, um, so in 2007, uh, the Maryland Defense Force, uh, did something basically, no SDF ever did. They, uh, they deployed with the Maryland Air National Guard on a mission, uh, to provide medical assistant and humanitarian aid and Bosnia. And, um, I, you know, over the years, uh, the California State Guard did deploy to, uh, I remember for hurricane, uh, Katrina and, uh, many other times out of the state. Um, so one question I wanted to ask you, and this would be for generalized. Um, do you believe that the state defense forces or state guards could assist the National Guard in missions that are overseas, uh, in locations like example, like Bosnia, um, in, in these kind of support roles?
MG Jay Coggan: (28:02)
Well, I guess it really comes down to, and the answer is yes. And I have sent a couple people over to Ukraine where in California, uh, not recently talking during the training mission periods. Um, I guess it comes down to it’s, you’re not really going there on a federal mission. It’s really depends on if your governor is willing to provide cross training, uh, in some form or another where your presence in a foreign country is consistent with your state’s intent. Cuz you’re not gonna be there on federal waters, no matter what you wanna say. So it, it really, really depends on that. Um, it’s gonna take state money, it’s gonna take state support to do it. Uh, it really comes down, think about it this way, uh, does a state, I will get, I know for a fact that many states in many cities will cross train their fire departments, police departments, uh, national security forces, uh, non-military forces with other nations. Uh, many fire fd n y lap, l a f d go over to Europe, have gone to Israel, Israel’s come here. We do that all the time. So it really becomes the matter of will the state or the, is the, is the state of municipality, whoever it is, the state interested in cross training with other nations. Why not?
Jean Marciniak: (29:34)
So, uh, that kind of leads me, I guess to my next question. Um, which is, um, the State defense force. So, uh, you know, um, I believe it was, uh, a couple months ago, maybe, uh, half a year ago, uh, there was, uh, some news and, uh, I believe, uh, you provided it that, uh, there was, uh, State Defense Force bill that was in the works, um, and that it was, uh, working its way to the United States Congress. Um, and, uh, there were, uh, representatives and senators that were, uh, uh, signed on to it. Um, but not much is known about it. All we know is that it, there is this bill out there. Um, I was wondering if you can provide more information about the bill its status and what it can do to state defense forces overall.
MG Jay Coggan: (30:25)
Sure. Um, I actually wrote the language, so I’m kind of familiar with
Jean Marciniak: (30:30)
It. Oh, okay. . So , this is perfect, perfect question.
MG Jay Coggan: (30:34)
Um, what, what it came down to is, let’s, let’s look at the history of what the problem really comes down to is if you look at the, uh, C N gbi, the Chief National Guard Bureau instruction, that General signed five years of, uh, June of 2017. It specifically says, State defense for may use federal equipment in support of federal missions and state missions with the National Guard. Okay. Which makes it legal. We can now use the equipment, we can do it. In other words, cuz the federal law is effectively silent. You have to get down to Army regulations to deal with it. So it says you can do it all right. But no policy has ever come out of ngb, which would, in a sense, implement this concept. Then you go to, I think it’s n g five dash one i, I can, I can check which regulation is there.
MG Jay Coggan: (31:32)
There’s a National Guard regulation, which clearly says, state employees in support of the cooperative agreements can dry federal vehicles, use federal vehicles, et cetera, et cetera, cetera. And there’s other aspects, Trust me there, there’s tons of them. Um, except the problem gets down to, and, and state defense forces are generally considered as a state employee for most purposes. The problem gets down to, is without federal legislation that clarifies it, there’s an inherent mistrust amongst us, pfos and even general counsels of the various military departments that, can I do this? Can I give a car, a truck, a piece of equipment, whatever, can I let them use, et cetera, federal equipment? And the concern is, if I do, am I violating the Anti-Deficiency Act or is this a purpose violation or all those wonderful things that will get me in trouble as the pfo or my, my agen in general, who I’m now general counsel for in advising.
MG Jay Coggan: (32:53)
So I have always had the, the theory were operated under, when you tell me you can’t do something, two things first, is it illegal or is you just don’t want to do it? Mm-hmm. , if it’s illegal, that’s the problem. If the law says a state defense boards cannot do something, blah, blah, blah, then you can’t do it. If it’s a matter of policy, then just change the policy or assume the risk. So in the absence of policy from ngb, what I, what I look to is will my agen in general, or will the people in the National Guard of the various states is whoever in command willing to assume the risk and literally implement their own policy for something that is legal to do. But people are low to do because of fear for absence of any over federal oversight or federal, you know, law.
MG Jay Coggan: (33:51)
So when I rewrote 32 USC 1 0 9, I wanted to make sure that I did not treat it as an appropriations function, cuz I probably would never get it through Congress, or it would take so damn long. You know, who knows what generation would take a benefit of it. So I I I rewrote it as basically an authorities bill, which says that the a that any, a general may use all of this federal equipment and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, uh, for state defense forces in support of the missions that he deems it’s appropriate for, which basically now grants a federal oversight, a law, a a federal statute under Title 32 that says, go ahead and do it. So no longer are the general counsels or PFOS need to be concern each adjunct general. If he thinks this bank for the buck, do it. Why not?
MG Jay Coggan: (34:44)
Remember something if did, if the National Guard breaks a truck while on state active duty, the state pays to fix it anyway. It has or breaks, it reimburses the federal government, the state still responsible. Oh, okay. So all is, if we break it, we fix it, meaning the state and why not? So it’s an authorities bill, and it also authorizes utilization of, um, pxs, things like that. And, um, it, it’s, it’s predominantly intended to reach, to eliminate any confusion or belief that by letting us use stuff that, uh, they’re breaking the law. That’s the purpose of the bill. Because I believe at that point, if we can clarify that from a federal legislation, then any ad in general that is thinking realizes, Wow, look at all this talent I have. I mean, even during covid, I mean, a lot of the MSTs, we had people out on es, he said, Why We had more, you know, uh, ICU nurses than National Guard.
MG Jay Coggan: (35:51)
Did they have tons of 68 whiskeys? But ask him how many ICU nurses they have. Hmm. Or pharmacists or x-ray technicians. The National Guard is not the Army Reserve. They’re not putting together, you know, uh, um, uh, medical hospitals. They don’t recruit the same way. So we have them. So we had people out during Covid as part of the National Guard Medical Support teams. So the point is, when you have all the cyber talent that you have, all the medical talent, all the police talent, all the fire talent, I’ve got four fire chiefs in the State Guard. I mean, we’re talking fire chiefs. I mean, I’ve got, I’ve got police captains, police lieutenants, police lieutenants from lapd. We’re not talking about a small community. Wow. So when you have all that, why not give them stuff to use and benefit from it? So I’m hoping that more and more generals will understand this because I, I, I think state defense forces will grow when two things happen.
MG Jay Coggan: (36:55)
One is they become more professional and responsible and reliable. California’s done that, I’m sure, and I know many of my other sisters today’s have, have two. I there’s a lot of us out there that do one hell of a job every time we’re asked to do it. And we don’t screw up. We don’t embarrass anybody. We do our missions. We’re responsible in, in our command and control, in our oversight. So one is the state defense force has to stop being the donut and coffee image and be a professional force that’s reliable. And two, the leadership within the states of the National Guards, whether it’s the Adju and generals, uh, or division commanders or brigade commanders or Batal matters. The next generation of National Guard leaders have to now have grown up with the modern State Defense Force so that there’s a trust there. There’s not that they’ve seen what we could do.
MG Jay Coggan: (37:51)
They’re not looking at it as through the eyes of someone who saw us as doing nothing. Uh, and I’m seeing that happen around the country. And I think you’ll find that in most states where the state defense forces are rapidly becoming more utilized. You’re not only gonna see them better themselves and more professional, reliable, but it’s now the newer generations of leaders that in their mind is, Why wouldn’t I use that person? They’re good. I don’t have a ne they’re not coming into the, into it with a negative attitude. And I think that’s the future of state defense forces. It’s a matter of being better and letting time just take over so that the new generation of leaders within the states see their state defense forces for who they are now. Meaning they should be saying, Oh mean, that’s not the way it’s always been. And that’s what they’re, that’s what’s going right now. I see it a parallel track. And I see that’s the future of state defense forces.
Jean Marciniak: (38:49)
And, uh, do you believe this spill would be, um, is it a possible that it will be presented in Congress this year or possibly next year? I,
MG Jay Coggan: (38:59)
It’s actually been written. It has been a, a, a dear colleague. It’s been sent around to everybody in Congress. They all have it. Uh, the author’s trying to get more support for it. I submitted it. Right. Unfortunately, beginning of Covid and between Covid and everything else, I think everybody got very distracted and times changed. When I submitted it, it was before, uh, the new administration was in place. And a lot of distractions have occurred. It’s not dead, It’s just not moving anywhere.
Jean Marciniak: (39:33)
Oh,
MG Jay Coggan: (39:34)
Okay. Um, I, I think it needs every state defense force, not as a state defense force. Cause obviously you can’t do anything other than what your governor wants you to do. But the people in there as private citizens, why can’t they talk to their congressmen, say, or congress persons and say, This is a great idea. Why don’t you support this? Um, I need more people out there actually knocking on doors of congressmen and congresswoman to simply say, Why wouldn’t you want this? Your state gets a benefit out of it. Uh, let’s go do it. And when that happens, I think it’ll move fast. Cuz it’s not a fiscal bill. It’s purely an authorities bill, and it’s basically codifying many authorities that already exist. But just making sure there’s no more ambiguity with it.
Jean Marciniak: (40:25)
Oh, okay. Uh, going over, uh, kind of, uh, piggybacking off your, uh, previous comments about, um, um, state, uh, state defense forces and, um, uh, working with the agen in general. Um, so recently the, uh, Florida State Guard was just recently formed. Uh, this has, uh, this is the first time I believe since, um, for decades, uh, since it was deactivated. Uh, they’re now taken application for new recruits. Um, me personally, I believe this is like the most important, but also the most vulnerable time for State Defense Force. Uh, mainly because I’ve seen like the Missouri State Defense Force, the Massachusetts State Defense Force, uh, get activated, created, and then two, three years later get deactivated. Uh, beca be mainly because, um, they provide a lack of, uh, mission supports in a National Guard. Um, I wanted to ask, uh, since you have one of the most, or possibly the most successful state defense floors, what advice would you have for the leadership for the Florida State Guard?
MG Jay Coggan: (41:38)
Um, that’s interesting because it’s gonna really depend on why they’re being stood up. For what purpose and in what capacity are they being stood up as a Title 32 USC 1 0 9 State Defense Force? Or just the governor’s idea of a state defense force? I don’t know. Do you have any knowledge of that?
Jean Marciniak: (41:57)
Uh, I know that the governor, uh, mentioned that they, uh, would be composed of, uh, 200, but that, that was increased to 400 individuals, uh, primarily to respond to, uh, hurricane, uh, disaster, uh, relief. Um, the only thing I’ve seen that’s different with the Florida State Guard versus any other, they, um, they may mention that the Florida State, uh, guard is a civilian force, not a military force, which is, um, opposite of every other state defense force that’s on the books.
MG Jay Coggan: (42:32)
Um, yeah. And I believe that’s, that’s, that’s because that’s what the National Guard wants to do.
Jean Marciniak: (42:37)
Ah, okay.
MG Jay Coggan: (42:40)
Um, the, the reality is, is I cannot find a good way to give advice to a non-military state defense force. Cuz in my mind, that’s not the state defense force that I am familiar with. I am familiar with uniform, uniform state defense forces that operate in a command and control environment with their National Guard, not as a civilian force, as a military, military force with traditional military command and control, military rank, uh, U c mj, uh, as adopted by the states, as you know, cuz UCMJ is a Title 10 concept, but the states have all adopted it mm-hmm. , um, as it a subject to u c mj, subject to all those military structures that make what makes us in Texas and New York and Mississippi and Tennessee and Maryland and, uh, Michigan and Indiana and Washington and Alaska. Um, if I’ve forgotten anybody, I apologize. But what if Puerto Rico, of course that makes the state defense for us. I mean, my job is not, I don’t know how, what can, what advice I could give to a civilian organization that’s gonna just provide assistance during a disaster. To me, that’s the Cajun Navy, that’s the reason that I created a maritime component of California. I didn’t want the Cajun navy here. That’s not to say they don’t do amazing stuff. I think they save lives to, They’re, they’re, I’m, I’m happy they exist, but there’s no command and control for them.
Jean Marciniak: (44:15)
Uh, You mean postcard auxiliary?
MG Jay Coggan: (44:18)
No, the Cajun Navy.
Jean Marciniak: (44:21)
I’m not familiar with them.
MG Jay Coggan: (44:23)
Look ’em up. The Cajun Navy are a bunch of civilians, uh, volunteers. And during hurricane seasons, and especially the south and southeast launched your boats and rescue people.
Jean Marciniak: (44:33)
Oh, okay. There’s been wasn’t aware
MG Jay Coggan: (44:35)
Of that help them and documentaries take a look at it.
Jean Marciniak: (44:38)
Oh,
MG Jay Coggan: (44:38)
Okay. The reason is, is I wanted a maritime unit in California that was commander control in the military environment. I’m not talking about Coast Guard auxiliary. Oh, okay. They’re called the PN Navy. Take a look at them. Uh, the, the bottom line is if, if Florida is creating a 200 person civilian force, every state’s got civilian volunteer forces. Why would you call them a state defense force? State defense, by its own definition, connotates, Department of Defense Defense, the concept of a military structure. California has a volunteer force. That’s nothing to do with us. State defense forces are traditionally part of the militia of the state. Is that not true?
Jean Marciniak: (45:24)
Yes, definitely. Um, and I do feel like I, I concur with you that you know, that having them as a civilian force, there is a, a negative, uh, side, a negative result to that if, and correct me if I’m wrong, but, um, so for example, if you know, uh, a National Guard, um, you know, NCO gives an order to, uh, a state guard, you know, soldiers say, All right, I need you to, uh, uh, stay at this post for the next 12 hours. Um, only allow authorized personnel through, um, by, uh, that soldier, that state defense force or state guard soldier, uh, is, uh, under the state military law. So, you know, they can’t just say, All right, well, I’m done. You know, I’m, I’m bored and I’m gonna go home. Um, under civilian force, you could technically do that. You could say, I’m done, go home. Um, but you can’t do that as a military for, uh, part of the military, mainly because, you know, there would be consequences, legal consequences, uh, criminal consequences if, if such actions would be done.
MG Jay Coggan: (46:29)
Yeah. Reversed it. I’ll give it to you. And the other side of it, uh, our, our State Defense Force personnel, California State Guard, have, have, and regularly do command National Gardens, as I told you on the fire line or otherwise. I’ve got a one star who’s the deputy commander for civil, uh, civil response for the 40th temperature division. He’s actually in the chain of command of the 40th entry division with 14,000 soldiers.
Jean Marciniak: (46:55)
Oh,
MG Jay Coggan: (46:56)
Wow. Uh, we’ve had a colonel that actually commanded a, a, uh, a, um, a command in the National Guard while their commander deployed for a year. It, let’s take step and think about it. The President of the United States has no ability to give it to an auditor to anybody in National Guard. Isn’t that correct?
Jean Marciniak: (47:15)
Uh, I believe the president only can, um, order the National Guard if he puts him on their Title 10, I believe. Right.
MG Jay Coggan: (47:24)
He federalizes them. Yeah. Okay. And tell me, I used, I used, I probably briefed as a JAG over 15,000 National Guard soldiers before they went to the Middle Eastern in the years. And that’s what I did. I used to brief them on the rules of engagement, the love war when the a shoe can’t shoot, et cetera. And I, I’d have fun, I’d have, you know, a battalion all wearing US army sitting in front of me during an SRP or something. And I would say to him, If the President of the United States, the Secretary of Defense, and the chief of staff of the Army all walked in right now and gave you an order of what should your answer be? And then we confuse them until they, until the answer was really, Excuse me, I checking my boss. Neither the secretary defense or the president can give an order until they federalize them. The federal government has never federalized, or excuse me, has not sent the National Guard to the border in any state that I’m aware of. There’s, there’s counter drug missions that I’m talking about. Generally there, these people are being paid with state money, not federal money. Remember that. And that is there at the border by order of the governor, not by order of the president.
MG Jay Coggan: (48:37)
And the President, if he decided tomorrow to pull him off the border, couldn’t do that unless you first federalize him and then order them off the border. So where I’m going with that is, as long as you are, look at most of your states in California, the active militia of the state of California is defined as the National Garden State Guard. That is the active militia of the state of California. In most states that have active state defense force, it’s part of their considered active militia. They are under the command and control of the aju and general who is under the command of control controlled the governor. And they’re not separate. They’re the act of militia. What that means is anybody within the act of militia can command anyone else in the act of militia unless they’re federalized. And if they’re federalized, the governor can’t give ’em an order, can’t put him on the streets during a riot, can’t pull him off to spring during a riot. He has no control over them anymore. The president has control. So using your underlying original premise, it’s broader than that. I have state guard people and state defense source. People without the country are legally capable of giving an order to a National Guard soldier. It’s also in command control to the governor.
MG Jay Coggan: (49:53)
Hmm. But if they’re a civilian, how do they give that order?
Speaker 3: (49:57)
Yeah, you wouldn’t be able to.
MG Jay Coggan: (50:00)
That’s kind of why I’m saying it’s not just your scenario of the, uh, State Defense force’s person on watch saying, I’m not gonna follow your orders, stand my post. It’s to reverse. It’s a National Guard soldier that is on post and a state defense for soldiers saying, You will stand that post. You wanna make sure the National Guard soldier can’t say, no, I don’t care. Because there’s no chain of command, no command of control. There’s no act of militia con con congruity with it.
Jean Marciniak: (50:30)
Hmm. Okay. Interesting.
MG Jay Coggan: (50:33)
Uh, but, but it, but that’s something people don’t think about. Why, why wouldn’t the state Defense force person as part of the active militia estate not be able to give an order to a National Guard soldier in command control to the governor? Give me a reason why not, Especially while doing a state mission, you know, fire response, uh, flood response, civil unrest.
Jean Marciniak: (51:02)
I do run into a lot of other, um, I, other commanders that, that have been on this show, uh, have, um, have mentioned that like the New York, uh, Brigadier General Riley, um, was also mentioning the same thing. Um, that, uh, he actually has some troops, uh, some NCOs and officers that are in charge of National Guard troops, uh, doing covid response.
MG Jay Coggan: (51:24)
Yes. But it’s not, But it’s not just that it’s any response that the governor has decided to do, or effectively any state mission that has not been federalized. So any state mission, there’s no distinction. National Guard call me, sir. Why wouldn’t they?
Jean Marciniak: (51:47)
So I wanna, I wanted to ask you and kind of, uh, like going off this point here, uh, kind of lead to, um, so there are a number of state defense forces out there that are, uh, not doing much, well, definitely not doing what you are doing, um, or what New York art is doing. Um, and there, in fact, they’re not even listed on the, uh, you know, division of military, uh, uh, affairs websites for their own states. Um,
MG Jay Coggan: (52:18)
I know campus is doing a lot too. I mean, there’s a lot doing a lot.
Jean Marciniak: (52:22)
Yeah. But I wanted to ask you for your feedback and your advice to the state defense forces that are, uh, on the verge of being deactivated, that, that you, that we rarely see news from. And if it is news, it’s something very small, uh, in regards to a mission. Um, I don’t want to name State Defense forces, but um, you know, we all know who they are. Um, these are the state defense forces that are not very active. They’re very, uh, few missions that, um, you know, our website reports on them. Um, what feedback can you give them to achieve, not all, but some of the successes that you had?
MG Jay Coggan: (53:06)
Uh, are, are we, excuse me, are, are we talking about the ones that are being deactivated or doing nothing
Jean Marciniak: (53:11)
Or, Uh, well, on the verge of being deactivated, like there’s a few state defense forces that, you know, um, post news that like maybe once every two or three months that, Hey, we did this and it’s okay. Um,
MG Jay Coggan: (53:25)
I don’t know specific advice I could give them other than somehow it’s trust in relationships. And, and I, I think what I mean by that is if you’ve got a state that is going into decline, let’s say it’s, cuz there’s nothing for them to do. And that’s the only reason. If there’s nothing to do, you’re probably gonna have an Azure General that says, Why do I want them? So I guess you have to go full circle around and find out why isn’t it that the, a Azure General wants them? And that would require an analysis on a state by state basis. You have to see why is it that that particular state, they’re not utilizing their state guard, their state defense force. Um, is it because they don’t trust them, they don’t want them?
Jean Marciniak: (54:21)
I think so, uh, a lot of times that I, when I kind of think of these state defense forces, I, I feel that, uh, they’re kind of stuck in, uh, that old guard mentality of, you know, getting together on the, you know, for the weekends doing some, you know, basic, uh, basic military kind of training. Uh, but, you know, maybe doing pod p o d or doing, um, you know, uh, that communi long, you know, communications, uh, missions, which, uh, use the ham radios. Um, there are a number of state defense forces that, you know, do those kind of missions. And I feel like they can do more, You know, And I feel like they’re, they become stagnant when they’re doing those missions because, you know, in those kind of environments, those kind of missions are very rare to, uh, to employ versus what you’re doing, which is, uh, being very active working with, like you were mentioning the National Guard, the Coast Guard. Um, so how, how, how would they be able to break out of that mold, you know, um, to,
MG Jay Coggan: (55:29)
Well, you know how, I’ll tell you how it happened with us. Maybe that’s the best way to put it. It happened with our js.
MG Jay Coggan: (55:37)
Um, when I first joined the California State Guard about 15 years ago, um, I was a JA officer and at the very beginning we started going up and helping during SRPs and there’d be a few state guard jacks with the National Guard. Jacks doing it. I can tell you, for the last eight or nine years, there’s not been a National Guard Jack that’s done an SRP in California. And I’m talking for a division and we’re sending, what about 6,000 out next year in California from the, from the I B C T and Headquarters Company. Um, so the bottom, the bottom line is we now do all SRPs. We’re the only jacks. They, if there’s a National Guard jack, they’re, they’re, they’re there for training, quite frankly for us to train them. But what it was is we actually embraced it. And so when we went to SRPs and we were doing will’s, powers of attorneys and advanced medical directives for deploying service members, we took the opportunity for all of our Jags to actually get involved in legal assistance to actually actively start helping these people when they’re coming going and when they’re coming back during yellow ribbons.
MG Jay Coggan: (56:48)
Is your bank honoring your deferment request? Are you having a problem with you Sarah, as your boss tried to fire you? Uh, is there a loan that’s been called in someone trying to foreclose on you? And so the Jaguar core, which at that time grew to 70 lawyers to some of the best law firms in the country from California, I convinced to then staff judge advocate let us go to court. So we started representing National Guard soldiers in uniform in court against banks, employers, lenders, anybody that would screw with them based upon their military service. We didn’t do their divorces for ’em, we didn’t do their breach as a contractor. We weren’t their their private lawyer just cuz they had access. But if they were being impacted by their military service, either under the s c you Sarah, or California military Veco protections, then our jaed went full poor, full blown, crazy.
MG Jay Coggan: (57:52)
We sued everybody. In fact, I re in fact at one point I had advanced over five oh, almost $10,000 a loan in filing fees. So rewrote the California statute so there’s no filing fees for any filing by a member of the National Guard to reserve for any violation of the military Veterans Code to Sarah s c. And I did it. So I got tired of keep writing checks that I knew I was not gonna ask for a back. But what we ended up doing is doing so much as Jax for our fellow service members that were coming back from deployments or were having issues because they’re military service that we became the go to. You know, right now our legal support command does a minimum of three to 500 full blown legal assistance matters every year, if not more. Wow. That’s a lot. Yeah. and I need everything from foreclosures to, um, to evictions to employ.
MG Jay Coggan: (58:51)
We just sued Navy Fed. I got a, I got a special forces, uh, sergeant, basically a free home. They had to settle. Oh wow. We, we’ve sued more banks, got more free homes over the years. Um, it wanted to mean by free homes. We’ve been able to show that their, their rights were impacted. But the bottom line is, so all of a sudden our Jags became like, Wow, these state guard people are good. We found a niche and we used that little niche to then say, Well, what if we also got certified here medically or in cyber or in whatever area was, would you be interested? And then it happened is when, when, when I took command four years ago and I started the new process where I did mission seek rather, I basically looked for gaps and then I first got our people certified and qualified, and then we had something to sell. I didn’t sell futures, I sold existing product. So it’s one thing to go to your Azure in general, say, Well, would you like a hundred of us after we train, we can do apps instead. I had a hundred people certified and trained and then said, I got a ready, willing, enforce. That’s more trained than your people. Same red card, you want ’em.
Speaker 3: (01:00:15)
Hmm.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:00:18)
You have to be aggressive in thinking about what it is your people are qualified to do and then ensure that they’re qualified, capable, and certified to do it. So when we go to oes or option market services or anything, any capabilities, grief, fire department will do remember something. And MRT a mission from any state’s Office of Emergency Services doesn’t go to the National Guard. Where does it go To the military department. Correct.
Speaker 3: (01:00:52)
Yep.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:00:53)
And when it gets to the military department, it doesn’t say I want National Guard. It doesn’t say how it wants, say guard. It just says military department will supply one or the people for the following missions, then up to the military department, decide who they want.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:01:10)
So once you acknowledge the fact that a state mission is not directed to a National Guard, but to the department, then what you’re trying, what you’re really doing is you’re saying to the department, to the A in general, ones the department and the department, I’ve got people qualified to do that mission. In fact, they may be more qualified to do it than your National Guard soldiers. Remember Cal Fire every summer used to actually say, Why do I have to reinvent the wheel after every summer? Why do I have to retrain for five days? People that go out on fire line and because the National Guard can’t train for fires all year, they have to train for their war, fighting for their federal readiness. So every summer you’re putting together brand new teams who don’t know what to do. Hmm. Instead my people train all year round for free. So our basically our mantra is we train for free. You pay us when you use us. Huh. So every disaster season, whether it’s flood, fire, search, and rescue shelters, I don’t care what it is, Our people have been training year round for free as a, as a volunteer state defense force should be doing. And they’re then qualified and they’re, and they’re training as a team all year round. So let me ask you, why wouldn’t you go to them first that a bunch of people you gotta pull up from the hit land and start training them?
Jean Marciniak: (01:02:37)
I mean, uh, I Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you. I mean the, uh, you know, I, I, So when I, when I think of the National Guard, you know, immediately. Uh, I, I mean they have been used for, you know, Afghanistan, Iraq and, and such. But, uh, uh, I immediately think of like, um, natural disaster response too. Uh, but you’re completely right. Their first duty is for war fighting, um, because they’re, I believe, the only combat reserve of the US military. I, I believe the US Army Reserve doesn’t actually have combat units that only have support.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:03:17)
Think about 40, 40% of deployed soldiers since nine 11 have been, have been effectively guard.
Jean Marciniak: (01:03:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:03:24)
People don’t realize, you know, the federal government in its infinite wisdom decided it was a lot cheaper to pay trade National Guard than the house and fee 24 7. A bunch of active duty.
Jean Marciniak: (01:03:36)
Yeah.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:03:37)
And so the National Guard’s mission, so every drill weekend, they’re training for their federal mission. They’re not being paid to train for the state mission, and you can’t keep a fire together because they’re just being pulled by Nate tapes to go out there fire season. Cause soon as fire season’s over, or flood seasons or hurricane season in the southeast, they’re back to their regular thing. And so what’s happened is, if you think about the fact that every state fence force could probably tra, you know, trace their current lineage back to January of 1941, you know, they’ve all had their, you know, they’re basically all having their ready first birthday right now. Um, it’s because in anticipation of World War II and the need for the National Guard to deploy, the recognition was that the federal mission would be so, uh, it would so subsume the National Guard that who is there gonna take care of the state as the home guard.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:04:36)
And so you’ll find that every state defense force, every state, you’ll, I mean, they all existed before that in some form or another. But I mean, the current iteration came around. Well, what’s finally happened, again, since Korea, the federal mission and the state missions are slamming into each other again. You know, the National Guard didn’t go to Vietnam of 3 million men that went there, only about 7,000 were National Guard. That was the decision of the White House, not to send too many folks from the same community to war, because if too many from the same community died, that would just help the anti-war movement. Mm-hmm. . So the National Guard is where people went if they didn’t wanna go to fight, they became a punchline of jokes. The quote weekend warrior came from Vietnam. Really?
Jean Marciniak: (01:05:23)
Oh,
MG Jay Coggan: (01:05:23)
You know, you don’t wanna be, if you don’t wanna be a fighter, join the National Guard. You don’t, you won’t go to war. There were waiting lists to get into the National Guard.
Jean Marciniak: (01:05:31)
Wow. I
MG Jay Coggan: (01:05:33)
Wasn’t aware of that. You know, And so the, you know, the state defense forces of course went to crap because, you know, shit rolls downhill. So it took another 20 something years for the National Guard start regaining its preeminence. It’s an amazing successful fighting force. But it took a long time for them to get there. And then for a bunch of years, there was no really big federal mission for them. Vietnam, they didn’t have one post Vietnam. They didn’t have one. It wasn’t until really the nineties with the first Gulf War and then after nine 11, that their real, the need for them as a war fighter became so obvious and, you know, so clear. So what’s happened now is the federal mission and the state mission have finally slammed into each other again for the first time since really Korea first time. Hmm. And so this is the perfect opportunity for state defense forces to basically show their medal as a home guard. I mean, it just, it took a long time and it took circumstances. And if anybody thinks the National Guard is not gonna keep the point, you’re crazy. Like I’m saying, the 40th division of California, so thousands out next year to the Middle East. Oh wow. That’s gonna be that, you know, fewer people, the whole country, they’re all go to every state. The divisions are all basically on rotational base right now. Everybody knows they’re going somewhere.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:06:55)
Hmm. And so the reality is, is this is the perfect opportunity to reinforce the need for a home guard for state defense force. Because the federal mission has once again, and you know, where I got got the idea was, was three summers ago, uh, when the Sonoma fires happened, there were so many soldiers from the 49th MP brigade of the National Guard there were either deployed on deep, uh, uh, or we’re coming back on, uh, a refr or were getting ready to go that those 49th that were available were doing so many traffic control points that were out or Schlitz, they were burned out.
Jean Marciniak: (01:07:36)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:07:37)
And so I said, Why don’t you use us? We got tons of law enforcement. They could run a traffic control point, but once again, but for the exacerbated federal mission, the 49th, that Pade wouldn’t have had to worry about it. No one would’ve been deployed, No one would’ve been on the way back in. No would’ve been on the way up. It would’ve all been available.
Jean Marciniak: (01:07:59)
Wow.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:08:00)
And that’s the way it’s been ever since.
Jean Marciniak: (01:08:04)
I
MG Jay Coggan: (01:08:04)
Think that’s, I I, I, you know, off record for the moment, I know I’ve been talking a lot, but I think a lot of what we do is really philosophical. When you ask me how do you sell us? I think you have to realize who you are first and what it is you have to sell and that you do have something to sell.
Jean Marciniak: (01:08:20)
Mm-hmm. , I think that’s a, um, I think that’s a perfect place to, uh, end the episode. Uh, cuz uh, I can’t think of a better ending for that.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:08:31)
I’m passionate about this. I really am. I believe in who we are and what we can do. And the fact that, uh, as far as we’ve come to California, there’s farther we can go and we will. Um, and I believe that every state should start to look at their state defense force with a brand new set of glasses on and say, Wow, look at all that expertise out there and I’m not touching it.
Jean Marciniak: (01:08:59)
Hmm.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:09:00)
You know, why wouldn’t you say to your state legislature, I can get you, I can get you a battalion strength at minimum, you know, Florida people, I can get you more people at 25 cents on a dollar to do your missions. Why wouldn’t you want that?
Jean Marciniak: (01:09:22)
Yeah.
MG Jay Coggan: (01:09:22)
In a time when the economies are screwed.
Jean Marciniak: (01:09:25)
Yeah. Yeah. That’s definitely a very attractive, especially like you were saying, especially with the way the economy is. I would love to have you back on the show to uh, kind of dive into a couple other topics. Uh, you know, uh, if, you know, if you’re, if you’re up for it
MG Jay Coggan: (01:09:40)
Oh, sure. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll help any time. Cuz I’ve been watching what you’re doing. I like what you’re doing. Um, I find it amazing that you’ve chosen to do this. Um, and the fact that you look for the best of the best and you show the best of the best to make sure that everybody can start believing in themselves. Cuz if we don’t believe in ourselves, No, we’ll believe in us. And I believe one of the great benefits that you provide is you show us in such a good light that we believe in ourselves.
Jean Marciniak: (01:10:10)
Yeah. It’s important. What was my intent? Yeah. Yeah. That was definitely a 10
MG Jay Coggan: (01:10:17)
And you’ve got it.
Jean Marciniak: (01:10:18)
And I I appreciate it. Yeah. That was definitely my goal, uh, from day one to, uh, have, uh, to see, you know, this, if the California State Guard can do it, we can do it kind of thing.