Major General Raymond Shields Jr., The New York National Guard Adjutant General (TAG)
Transcript:
Welcome to commanders briefing, a podcast where we talk about state defense forces with their commanding officers. This month we have on the show major general Raymond F shield Jr. The adju in general of New York. He is the senior national guard general in charge of all New York state military forces. This episode was recorded in late may. We do apologize for the delay and release. We would also like to thank our Patreon supporters who make programs like this possible. If you want to help support the podcast and state defense force.com, please clip the Patreon link in the description. Thank you. And here’s the interview?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (00:36):
What, what can we do for you today? I know you wanted to talk a little bit about the, the New York Guard.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (00:39):
Yes. and also a little bit about state defense forces. So I wanted to sincere the tag and the the head of the national guard in New York. I I wanted to just get your thoughts on the New York guard. I would guess my first question would be what do you think the New York guard does? Extremely well as a, as a force.
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (01:09):
Yeah, I think you know, it has evolved over time. It has evolved over time. The, the, the, the New York guard years ago was a was, was more of an organization whereby people held ranks that were more ceremonial in, in nature. And I’d say really since September 11th, it’s really changed dramatically to be more of a force that is more structured to be civil support operations. So that is a supporting the government, the need of the governor when the governor calls supporting the needs of the state and helping the citizens of the, of the state during civil support emergencies. So floods, hurricanes, you know snowstorms things of that nature lake Ontario, flooding, we have used the New York guard extensively to help help with the flooding on lake Ontario over the past few years. And then of course, most recently, really with the, with the, you know, over two years now, March 8th, 2020, we’ve been supporting the state’s pandemic response based on COVID. And so what I would say is they bring is they bring a great amount of flexibility. They bring a great amount of enthusiasm. They are volunteers, as you are aware, unless they’re in a, in an emergency status whereby we’re paying them state active duty. And so what they bring is just a, a great amount of, of volunteerism and enthusiasm, and they add depth to our ability within the New York national guard, as part of the state defense force is they add depth to our ability to respond when the state needs something.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (02:45):
Okay, awesome. Do you I just curious when assigning missions to a new to the New York guard, do you run into any roadblocks when assigning them to a mission? And if so, what kind of roadblocks do you run into?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (03:03):
Really very rarely, if anything. The, the, the most significant thing is, is many years ago we determined, I say we, the, our agency, the division of military Naval affairs determined that we were not gonna have the New York art armed at that point. The New York guard did have in its possession, some state owned weapons. We, we ended up accessing those into the state police and, and we got rid of those weapons. So the missions that we use, the New York guard for are unarmed missions. There’s no requirement for them to be weapons qualified. Also we do have restrictions when it comes to use of, of federal government of property. So like trucks and things of that nature. So vehicles that belong to the New York army national guard, or the New York air national guard we don’t allow members of the state defense forces to drive that federal property.
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (03:54):
We only restrict that to soldiers and, and airmen. But on this side of the thing with, with the COVID response we have rented all the vehicles. We have not used military vehicles in our two plus years of COVID response, only in a couple, very, very small instances, have we used governmental military vehicles. And so with that, the New York guard drives the rental vehicles that we rent and, and the box trucks that we rent for helping to deliver supplies across the state for the pandemic. So there’s really been no, no real difficulty there. So the only real hindrance is we don’t use ’em in an arm status, and we, and they’re not allowed to use the the Army’s equipment or the air Force’s equipment.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (04:37):
Oh, okay. That kind of, kind of leads me to my next question. So there’s current legislation that is currently currently being drafted to head over to Congress to change some of the I would say the regulations regarding the state defense forces to help basically allow state defense forces to use federal government vehicles as well as equipment. I was just kind of curious, do you think that would that SU such a, you know, addition regulation would be a benefit? So perhaps if you do need to have, you know, the New York guard drive some trucks from, you know one base to another and would that be a good benefit, something that you can see that would help for the New York guard?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (05:40):
Yeah. I’m not familiar with the legislation. And so I wouldn’t really comment on it. You know, before we did that, I would want our, our legal affairs office to kind of review it. And, and then of course the United States property and fiscal office, because all this property we’re talking about is federal property. So I, I really would have no, no basis in which to comment on it. I, I can tell you though that from my experiences this prohibition or this, you know, cuz in New York we don’t, we just don’t do it. It has not had an impact on our ability to utilize the New York card. So, so like I say, I, I, I’m not familiar with it and I really don’t know enough really to comment fully, but I don’t see it as a significant impact to the New York to the New York national guard or to the division of military Naval affairs. So
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (06:27):
I wanted to ask your opinion, I guess a little bit of more broader aspect. Do you believe that the national guard bureau or maybe another national organization should set uniform training standards for all state defense forces? Or do you feel like each state should kind of set its own standards for their own state defense force?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (06:52):
Well, had never really given thought to that. Hmm. Should there be uniform standards or allow each state? I, I almost think because we only use state active duty capacity. I almost think having, having each state decide how they’re gonna utilize them within the confines of the, of the state requirements and the state laws that are there. I almost think that’s a better option, but I haven’t really given a lot of thought. I don’t know rich. I mean, I think there’s rich. You’re the only one on the call here with us. I
don’t know who else is here, but
Colonel Richard Goldenberg (07:28):
Yeah, you do bring up a good point, sir, that, you know, the needs on the east coast versus the west coast flooding in hurricanes versus wildfires and earthquake, right. It, it, you know, it’s the mission demands in each state or region that really are more driving the for structure, training and requirements of a state defense force than, than any sort of national standard that everyone has to do five pushups or not. I don’t think that’s relevant as it would be for what California, Texas, Minnesota, New York and Vermont are all asking of, you know, whatever their force might need.
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (08:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I, like I say, I’m, I’m I, and, and without knowing more on it, I, I would be hesitant
probably to advocate for a, a national standard, I think.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (08:12):
Oh, okay. I guess the other kind of question I want to kind of dive into I would say it would be more for that broad aspect. What do you feel is the greatest strength and also the greatest weakness of state defense force, whether it be at New York guard or any other state defense force?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (08:36):
Well, as I mentioned early on, I think it’s just their absolute flexibility and their they’re volunteerism. We have never, we have never been disappointed when we’ve called the, the, the New York guard onto a state active duty status to assist the state or to augment the national guard. Or we also have in New York, we have have something called the Naval militia. And so I would say that is their absolute strength is just their willingness to, to be there, to do whatever we really require. And at a moment’s notice. And then as far as weaknesses, I think like anything else it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a recruiting issue of, because it is an unpaid, an unpaid force until we call them into state active duty. It is always a challenge to find people who are willing to devote time and energy and their own money to buy their own uniform in, in instances. So I would say that would be the, the biggest challenge or the biggest I don’t call it a weakness, but the biggest challenge I think, is, is continuing to recruit the, the members of the, of, of the organization, because it is a, a solely volunteer organization.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (09:43):
Okay, awesome. The, you the New York just had a, a command transition to Brier general Peter Riley. And I know he’s you know, a career army and combat veteran. I wanted to ask your opinion, do you believe that, you know, having a former army commander army national guard or us army commander in charge heading being a leader of the state defense force greatly improves a state defense forces relationship with the tag and also provides for like better organization and admissions for that state defense force?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (10:24):
Yeah, I I’d say no. That’s. My first instinct is to say no to that is that we have every month we have a monthly general officer slash flag officer call where, whereby we talk to all the general officers of the army, the air guard you know, general Riley and then Admiral Admiral Smith, who is the commander of the, of the New York Naval militia. And so on a monthly basis we get an opportunity to sit and on the phone we’ve been doing it, of course, you know, cuz traveling is, is difficult, but we have an opportunity to talk about what is going on within the organization. You know, if there’s any issues that come up, we discuss those there. We have a very close working relationship. Like I said, I talk to them every month. I, I also meet with the commander of the New York guard and the commander of the Naval militia independently. And so I don’t think Pete Riley’s former association with the national guard has made a difference in the relationship with me at the, a agent in general. And I don’t think it would make a difference in a future, a agent in general because we have a very a very open and, and I would say very collaborative working relationship. So so I, I, I don’t see that as a significant improvement or significant value added.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (11:41):
Oh, okay. I was just kind of curious for other state defense forces that don’t have I would say like a. command in general that has so much prior service experience.
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (11:53):
Yeah, well, our, our most recent commander of the, of the New York art his entire service was in the New York art. And so his entire service was dealing with the New York art. So, and, and, and he was a great partner and no issues whatsoever very well understood the organization very well understood the needs of, of the state very well understood how to interact with the division of military Naval affairs, which is our, our agency that manages the state defense forces. So, so I, I, like I say, I don’t see any difference there whatsoever.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (12:28):
Okay. let me kind of move over to this other question. So back in 2007 2006, I’m sorry. The Maryland defense force did something that basically never happened before never happened since they deployed with the Maryland air national guard on a, on a medical and slashing humanitarian mission to Bosnia her Herzegovina in 2006 they brought their 10th medical regimen, which was doctors, nurses EMTs. And they were going into remote villages and providing assistance. And one thing that I was always curious about is, do you believe that future missions like that, like medical missions or support missions where the state defense force deploys with the national guard of their state to in support roles, do you think something like that would be possible in the future with let’s say New York guard or other state defense forces?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (13:44):
Well, again, now we’re getting into authorities and getting into legal issues and, you know, I’m not exactly sh I, I’m not familiar with what you described. So I really can’t comment on that, but but I, I do think though that there are some capabilities that could be useful, the issue would be the authorities under which it can happen either under state law or through the state department. So I, I, that would require a lot more research and a lot more effort to, to, to, to figure that out. But, but I’m just not equipped to really comment on that at this point, but but I would say though that, you know, within New York we use the New York guard for what, what their capabilities are. And so I find great value in that. And I, and I think that the members of the New York guard do also, in fact, in fact, I was just talking to a member of the New York yard today at one of the warehousing sites. And and, and we’re out visiting COVID sites today. We’re operating at over 107 at 117 sites throughout the state. So, and I ran into a member of the New York yard who’s been on since March of 2020. Wow. And so anyway, so great, great support to the, to the organization and to what the state needs. I can’t really comment on overseas type type activities.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (15:04):
Okay. let me see. So I was also kind of curious other so many states have a state defense force New York being one Georgia Indiana. Do you feel like neighboring states, like New Jersey or Massachusetts could also benefit from having a state defense force?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (15:28):
Sure. I think if there’s a need and that state determines, you know, the, the governor and the legislature determine that there’s a, a need for that kind of an organization to help with civil support operations within the state. I think, I think, yes. I think it’s something they should seriously consider.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (15:45):
Okay. Awesome. And I guess I just covering my questions here. I think I just have one or two more. Oh yeah, so I just have two more. So I wanted to ask since you know, you have a, a rich and I looked at your military history record and it was just astonishing. So I, I, I was kind of curious, I wanted to get your feedback for other state defense forces, cuz other state defense, some, there are some state defense forces that are not as active as the New York guard and that they don’t have as good of a relationship with the, with the tag with their tag. What kind of recommendations would you, would you provide those kind of state defense forces? So this, this way they can better assist and augment and support their national guard in their state?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (16:44):
Well, I would say anything is about relationships. It’s about the relationship that you have and that the trust that you build with with who you work with and for, and so you know, it starts there and then expands from that point. So it’s all about relationships.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (17:00):
Oh, okay. And then I guess my last question is I don’t wanna take too much over your time cause I know you’re extremely busy in running basically the whole military in New York. So kind of, I brought up before a New Jersey in Massachusetts and them developing state defense force Florida has actually decided to propose legislation in in their house and Senate to develop their own Florida state guard. The bill is currently heading to the legislature and but this one’s a little different. I know every state defense force is classified as a military force and they’re subject to the same laws and regulations as the army national guard of the uniform code of military justice. But the Florida state guard is classifying them as a civilian organization. And I just wanted to get your feedback on do you feel that state defense forces should be labeled as a military force so they can, so the uniform code of military justice does apply to them or do you feel they should be more in line with like a civilian organization?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (18:14):
Well, well, first of all, the, the uniform code, the UCMJ does not apply to the, the, the New York guard. It does not apply to the New York army national guard and the New York air national guard. And it does not apply to the Naval militia here in New York. So when we’re in a state active duty status or in a title 32 status whereby we it’s normal business that we’re working for, the governor title 32 day to day training in preparation New York operates and most other states do also, they have their own military law. So New York operates under what’s called the New York state military law. And so we are not subject to the UC MJ when we go into title 10 status, when we are activated title 10 by the president or through the secretary of defense, that’s when we fall under UC M J. And so the, the, so just to correct you there the NA the New York guard does not fall under UC MJ, but they do fall under the New York state military law as far as disciplining and things of that nature. So so your question was, you know, should Florida make it a civilian force or a military force and that, and that’s really up to Florida. I, I wouldn’t comment on that.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (19:31):
Oh, okay. And, but do you feel like having the New York guard under that state military law is more
preferential than having them as just a civilian force?
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (19:45):
I know it works well for us in New York, and I think I would leave it at that and leave it to the elected officials in Florida to figure what is best for them.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (19:52):
Okay. All right. I think that’s all my questions. Yep. That’s all my questions. <Laugh> I have had so many questions. I didn’t think I was gonna I thought I was gonna take a little bit longer, but I’m glad it didn’t cuz I know you’re extremely busy and I know you’re traveling and touching this.
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (20:12):
No, no problem. I’m glad we can make, I’m glad we can make the time. And, and I’ll just end by saying, you know we’re very, very proud, very, very proud of, of the New York art. They’re a great organization. They have a lot of history. They have always responded when we need them. One quick story, you know, I mentioned the Ontario lake Ontario flooding we actually had a New York guard command team that was managing the, the, the last time we did it. I think it was 2019 and they managed the entire operation. We had members of the national guard. Wow. That worked for, that worked for the leadership of the New York guard. And so I think we have a very well integrated relationship, as I said to you before. And so we, we have a lot of faith in the New York guard. We use them extensively and here in New York, they’re just like members of the national guard or the, or Naval. And so we’re very proud of them and, and very pleased with what they provide for us.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (21:11):
Okay. Awesome. I think that’s a perfect place to end. I really appreciate the time general. I know. I know it’s, for me, it’s a, it’s a honor and a privilege to speak to you. And
Major General Raymond Shields Jr. (21:23):
There’s no honor. Believe me. There’s no honor, but we appreciate the time. And so it’s it’s been, it’s been great talking with you also.
Jean – StateDefenseForce.com (21:29):
Awesome. Thank you so much general and thank you, Colonel. And I don’t know if Amanda’s on the line, but thank you to all of you for making this happen.